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[Resolved] How to fake the lockout chip

[Resolved] How to fake the lockout chip
by on (#96936)
Hi,
I'm a french NES fan, i am currently working on an arcade cab based on a NES FR (not a playchoice mothership). In a nutshell, the project goal is a plug & play Arcade Cab, you just plug the nes and "here we go".

So i need to made a system like a gamekey that use a PAL B cartridge (or just the NES 101 if possible) to fake the motherboard lockout chip. But i have no gamekey and i didn't found any gamekey electronical scheme on the web.

Someone could help me ?

by on (#96938)
Why don't you just clip the lockout chip in the nes? It's really easy and there's plenty of guides for it on the internet. (Google something like "disable nes lockout chip")

by on (#96939)
I know this way to disable the lockout but according to "you just plug the nes and "here we go". " i can't do this. I need a system, like the gamekey which is external. I can't do nything on the nes, it's my rule ^^

by on (#96940)
You don't need it (Nevermind the NWC), clip the pin. It's on it's own little pin set not touching anything else on the Nintendo besides reset.

by on (#96941)
The goal is that anyone with his french NES, without doing anything can plug in in my cab and play. So, the only way is using an external thing like a gamekey.

by on (#96942)
cab? what?

But anyway, you probably want this to put into a cart:

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.ph ... ucts_id=37

by on (#96943)
cab = arcade cabinet

why not using a ciclone but i don't know how tu use it. You may help me on this subject ?

by on (#96944)
I have no idea what you're talking about. Cab? Custom? With an NES in it?

Cut pin 4 if so.

The ciclone chip is just a lockout clone with all regions in it.

by on (#96945)
A custom arcade cabinet in bartop style with a nes inside,

A chip which did the same job as the lockout chip ? Nice, do you know how to wire it to a classic NES Cartridge ?

by on (#96946)
Cut pin 4.

by on (#96947)
Quote:
The goal is that anyone with his french NES, without doing anything can plug in it on my bartop and play. So, the only way is using an external thing like a gamekey.


Is really think that there is something you don't understand on my project...
I can't do any modification on the NES ‼‼‼‼‼

by on (#96948)
Why not? I don't get why you can't. It's the best way. Besides, the ciclone will take much more modification to wire in. You're not making much sense, the lockouts are already in the carts.

by on (#96949)
In order to made my arcade bartop plug & play i made a custom cartridge which is a bridge between the toaster slot and 2x 36wire ribbon.

Those ribbon are connected to 2 small custom circuit with a 72 pin slot for one and a 60 pin slot for the other. With this system i made realy cool vertical slot instead of the original toaster system.

But in order to made this slot functionnal i need to have a lockout which "talk" with the Nes MotherBoard lockout chip.

That's why i want an external system like the Gamekey.

by on (#96950)
Cut pin 4 of the lockout and the system will NEVER RESET and will just play anything you put into it. You don't need it at all.

by on (#96951)
Imagine that you are in a world where NES are all closed and you can't open it. How will you do make my NES FRA allowed to read US Game ?

by on (#96957)
You're a broken record! Stop telling the man to cut pin 4! He's building a custom arcade cabinet that is designed to have an NES dropped in for use. It may not be the same NES all the time, so he needs it to work regardless of which unmodified NES is in it!

He wants an adapter for his stock french NES to read a US game (putting aside software issues with timings).

You could manufacture for yourself an adapter that plugged into the NES, and had the lockout circuitry on board. Then, on the other end, it had another 72-pin cartridge slot that passes through every other line for the cartridge. This is similar to what Nintendo did with early release first-generation games like Gyromite and Hogan's Alley, where an adapter like I mentioned sits inside the cartridge with a Famicom PCB plugged in. You'd be doing this, but with another NES slot.

I hope this helped.

by on (#96959)
Nice, someone who don't tell me to cut this fu**ing pin 4 ^^.

Do you know the way the lockout chip is wired to the card edge of the nes
cartridge ?

by on (#96961)
Listen dude, I'm going to say it one last time. Cut pin 4 on the lockout in your system, if you don't have enough NES's to build one, don't build it! You shouldn't be switching NES's, get a NES just for this project. I don't where you're going to get tons of NES's to play anyway. If you want an adapter, build one out of 2 game genie parts and connect it to the PCB or something. But even then, you'll have to just use a bare NES mobo still, which will need modified. But still, you're going about this wrong if I understand you're planning on swapping out Nintendos often...

by on (#96962)
Listen dude I'm going to say it one last time : Read carefully the topic before answering !!!!

by on (#96964)
Why you wouldn't build the NES inside of the unit blows my mind. terrible idea, but whatever floats your boat. Still would work 100% like you want if you cut pin 4.

by on (#96965)
Easier to just ignore the pin 4 comments at this point, he obviously doesn't get why you want what you do.

I have the schematic to use the ciclone here here

That way you can implement it into whatever cart circuitry you have.

by on (#96967)
Imagine that "the unit" is always turned on, there is a great risk that i destroy a lot of NES. SO i need that all modification are not on the NES so that i can change the NES by another without blowing my mind with re-modding again a NES.

by on (#96969)
GP5 on 71
GP3 on 34
GP1 on 35
GP2 on 70
GP4 Not connected
I don't understand what is wired to V00, V55 and GP0. Could you explain me what need to be wired with them ?

by on (#96970)
Sorry for my handwriting...

Those are actually VDD (5v)
And VSS (ground)

GP0 locks the part in U.S. NTSC mode when grounded. So you'll actually have to leave it floating. As explained at retrozone, you scan through the different regions by hitting reset. It should save your last known good region afterwards.

by on (#96973)
So if i don't wired the 71,34,35,70 pin on the final slot and wired instead the ciclone, the lockout chip on theNES motherboard will always think that the cartridge i use is a PAL B even if it's a Famicom cartridge or a US cartridge ?

Where can i found the 5V and the ground inside a NES cartridge ?

by on (#97036)
http://nesdev.com/rom.txt

Gnd (Vss) is pin 1 and 72
5V (Vcc) is pin 36

by on (#97038)
Thank's i will wired this on my prototype when i get the CIClone. For the moment my prototype is a NES motherboard that i cut to fit in a NES Cartridge because i don't found another way to get a 72 pin card edge.
Photo

by on (#97039)
Oooo... looks like a painful way to get the cart connector. Hopefully the NES was already dead. ;)

You could just use the CIC device that was on that original mobo instead of the CIClone. You'd just have to copy the schematic connections of a cartridge (not the mobo). I don't have a schematic anywhere at the moment but it's pretty easy to reverse engineer with a multimeter and flash light.

Nintendo actually put the same chip on both the mobo and carts. They just grounded one pin (#4) to put it in mobo (lock) mode. If the pin's floating it's in cartridge (key) mode. That's why you're able to disable the CIC by clipping pin 4 on the mobo.

by on (#97040)
What do you think about this way to replace my prototype ?
If i understand, i just need to solder the CIClone and the ribbon of 36 wire ?

It will be less painfull i think.

PS: The NES was already dead, but it was the only way i found to get a real 72 pin (on duckhunt or TMNT there is not the 72)

by on (#97041)
Ahh I see you wanted ALL 72 pins.

Yeah that reproboard would actually be an good solution for you. All you'd need to do is solder in the CIClone as is because his boards are already wired up for it.

Keep in mind all the pins are there but not necessarily easily accessed. The exp pins and such don't get routed anywhere. But the PCB is only 2 layers so it's pretty easy to trace out where all the signals go while there aren't any ROMs soldered on.

by on (#97044)
Yes, i will trace all the pin, and even if i don't found one i will solder directly on the very top of the pin

by on (#97106)
3gengames wrote:
Why you wouldn't build the NES inside of the unit blows my mind.

Let me rephrase: "I am building an arcade cabinet into which an NES Control Deck can be installed. The cabinet has a Famicom cartridge slot on the front. The people who buy this cabinet and supply their own NES won't already know how to cut pin 4. How do I explain to my customers how to cut pin 4?"

What if every maker of an unlicensed NES game had to write in the manual how to cut pin 4? RacerMate required a cut pin 4, but the peripheral was expensive enough that the manufacturer could include professionally done NES modification in the price.

by on (#97132)
Thanks for the rephrasing ^^. The topic was resolved by infiniteneslives (thanks to him) i will use a CIClone on a repropack PCB.

by on (#97288)
Yea, if you were making something like mine with the nes motherboard inside pin 4 would be the way to go. You can see the one I made here if you want to see my approach to a NES bartop arcade.