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Sonic 2 NES hoax [?]

Sonic 2 NES hoax [?]
by on (#23657)
Oh, bother. It would seem that someone is trying to hoax a community by allegedly programming what looks like an impossible NES version of Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Certainly, it would be nice if someone with more technical knowledge than I would look into this, and officially disprove this garbage...

Sonic 2 NES thread @ sega-16.com

by on (#23658)
Quote:
-I'm probably known on the internet by now, for being the first person to successfully attach a DVD-ROM drive to an NES, and make movie playback possible on the NES too..

-I've never heard of you. =D Got a website I can visit?

-no website.. i just post my stuff on forums.. i might still have screenshots of the NES DVD-Player somewhere... (i tend to lose them)


What's that smell..? Could it be... bullshit?
Oh yeah, his screenshots look real authentic too.. :lol:

by on (#23659)
Rule #1: The NES can not display yellow.

If these people are dumb enough to believe this, I'd like to show them a Zelda 3 Prototype version...

by on (#23660)
They're not dumb. Seeing he's been around long, and made over 1000 posts, they logically trust him.

Saying the NES can't display yellow can be defended by blaming it on his tv-card (or whatever he claims to use as capture device). In fact, any shot at disproving those images/sounds can easily be defended, up to telling his DVD ROM attachment includes special graphics and sound chips to enhance those of the NES. Asking for the source code of Sonic 2 NES can be backed by telling his special compiler is generating the code for him. Asking for source code of that compiler might corner him, causing him to get upset, angry, and threatening to leave the forums. Or who knows, he might just say his harddisk suddenly crashed.

In short, it's of no use trying to disprove it, other than making part of the people that believe him have doubts. It'll be enjoyable for him trying to come up with excuses.

by on (#23661)
This is very, very very funny. I'd like to see how far he'll push his claims.

He seems to forget in his wonderful take-a-snapshot-from-a-MD-emu-blur-it-a-bit-and-add-a-noise-filter wisdom that Sonic on the MD is 320 pixels wide, while the NES can only do 256.

Not to mention NES per-tile colour limitations.

Et cetera, et cetera...

by on (#23662)
Ignore this guy, he's a troll on multiple forums leading on extremely gullible members.

by on (#23663)
I say leave the thread alone. It seems like the people are playing along.

by on (#23664)
Oh man... the guy disabled the background, recorded a movie from Sonic 2, reduced the colors and made a movie of that... you can even see the 2 glitchy scanlines at the bottom of the screen in Emerald Hill...

I can't see what kind of joy someone gets out of fooling others...

by on (#23666)
That still doesn't beat that fake port of FFX to the NES.

by on (#23667)
There's not much to discuss. If that guy can release (or assh*le enough to sale it) a ROM image of that game, so... it's a turn around. Otherwise, I'm busy sleeping on my bed. :D

by on (#23670)
Bregalad wrote:
That still doesn't beat that fake port of FFX to the NES.

Hard to tell which is worse. I'm personally offended by this, since I'm actually coding a Sonic engine. I'm busting my ass out to recreate the engine in a way that is as fast and enjoyable as the original series, and then comes this guy and says he's "ported" it. As if it were possible...

Therer are so many inconsistencies... The same graphical glitch as the Mega Drive version, the sprite count in a scanline, the yellow, the frame skipping (as if a console would "skip frames" like an emulator, as opposed to playing it all, but slowly)...

They actually believe the game can simply be "ported", in spite of the machines being so different. There is no way for the code of the Mega Drive game to work, even if translated to the NES, because that exact engine will just not work. The way the level are handled, the memory requirements, difference in GFX hardware (he doesn't seem to know that there are much more particularities than the ammount of colors)...

I'll post a little something there, if the moderator ever accepts me.

by on (#23672)
Bregalad wrote:
That still doesn't beat that fake port of FFX to the NES.

Ooh, link please.

by on (#23673)
Dwedit wrote:
Rule #1: The NES can not display yellow.

But maybe the Famicom can. Remember that the Famicom uses NTSC-J, which warps hues to make flesh tones look "better". Also remember that the European NES uses a PAL PPU, whose hues are offset by 15 degrees from the NTSC PPU's nominal colors. Even on NTSC-M, watch for "comb filter" excuses if the code is toggling the colors from frame to frame to make them look more yellow.

But those images still appear hoaxish, as the Sonic sprite has way too many colors even for the Mega Man trick (flesh tones in a separate sprite). It looks more like Sega Master System graphics if anything. If the score ever goes greater than 999, that would look hoaxish too for exceeding the limit of 8 sprite slivers per line. And what's the 224-line picture doing in a 240-line PPU? And where's the 3-line color burst alternation?

Excuses about a DVD-ROM drive are inexcusable once the NES Power Pak comes out. CompactFlash and ATAPI are electrically identical.

And I could make better music than that in NT2, even without DPCM.

by on (#23675)
commodorejohn wrote:
Ooh, link please.

Search for a topic started by Celius intituled somthing like "Fake Fake FAKE !!!!" and probably in NESdev too. It was somewhat old.

EDIT : Found the topic here.

And the NES can display appoximative yellow, using color $28 or similar (this actually looks more like gold than yellow).

Quote:
Hard to tell which is worse. I'm personally offended by this, since I'm actually coding a Sonic engine. I'm busting my ass out to recreate the engine in a way that is as fast and enjoyable as the original series, and then comes this guy and says he's "ported" it. As if it were possible...

I understand this pretty much. This should be a bit frustrating. I and Celius are also getting our ass attempting to remake another recent Final Fantasy game, and even the basics are a pain in the ass to do.

I'd recommend everyone to log on in the forum and start to ask lots of questions that the guy won't be able to answer to trash him down and make him pay for his impudence (like we already did for FFX before). I don't know much about sonic and so, so I don't feel too much like starting.

PS : The backgrounds definitely looks pretty much NES-ish, however the sprites are so obviously not NES-ish at all.

by on (#23676)
Bregalad wrote:
I'd recommend everyone to log on in the forum and start to ask lots of questions that the guy won't be able to answer to trash him down and make him pay for his impudence

Yeah, this is a very good idea. Better than showing up and saying that the whole thing is a bunch of crap. We could indentify ourselves as NES programmers, and ask many technical questions on how he achieved some of the effects, and I'm sure he won't be able to answer. Sounds like something tepples would do! =)

I'm waiting for my registration to be validated. It's taking a lot of time though.

by on (#23677)
tokumaru wrote:
I'm waiting for my registration to be validated. It's taking a lot of time though.

Same on me. When it'll be done, let's begin the fun aprocahing question in a similar order to this (don't hurry up too much and direcly say this is a fake !!)

- How graphics were ported to NES
- How the game engine was coded (assembler, tile editor, etc..., along with his method to port it)
- What mapper/hardware it uses
- How he did so amazingly looking sprites on the NES
- How he did more than 8 sprites per lines on the NES
- More insane tricky question here if needed

(of course if anyone have better ideas don't hesitate, just don't say straight away it's a fake without going insane first)

EDIT : It seems even after registering, you still can't just post, and need more aproval stuff. Anyway there is no reason to rush, because this guy isn't going to stop showing off this stuff right now.

by on (#23678)
Ah, I didn't think he'd be harming anyone else but himself.

It seems you're on the memberlist tokumaru, unlike Bregalad, so maybe your account got activated now?

by on (#23679)
Oooohhh! I can post! :twisted:

by on (#23680)
If the same happens on you that happened on me, you'd be able to post in a while (about an hour or so) without doing anything.
That should be something to prevent spam (at least they have something, unlike here....)
And I should definitely be on the memberlist, you shouldn't have searched correctly.

EDIT : Tokumaru, you weren't supposed to ask all of them at once, but to wait the answer between quesiton and screw the man up a bit more each time, before being completely screwed and trashed. That's a little less fun, but anyway he'll probably be screwed as well.

by on (#23681)
Compare my Emerald Hill Zone NSF to evildragon's Emerald Hill Zone MP3. Which sounds more like the original?

by on (#23682)
Posted. I won't say anything about the sound, 'cause that's not my department. =)

EDIT: tepples, your NSF is very good!!!

by on (#23688)
I'm willing to register just to flame those people.

by on (#23692)
tepples wrote:
Compare my Emerald Hill Zone NSF to evildragon's Emerald Hill Zone MP3. Which sounds more like the original?

It's clearly not the Genesis version, but I'm wondering if that might be the SMS+FM chip version from the SMS Sonic. At any rate, it's clearly not something you can get out of the NES without using the VRC7.

by on (#23695)
It seems that guy is ready to get fire... hehehehe :P
Anyway, I wonder how usefull that Sonic game will be... and who could play it, since an unhacked NES is unable to run it.

Something interesting I read is about "leaving M68k code". This would hang the CPU as "invalid opcode" (or unofficial). Go figure.

Anyway, where's Mr. WedNESday $0.02 about this stupidity? :D

by on (#23698)
Oh noes! We've been found out! RUN!!!

by on (#23700)
Hey, tokumaru, you could change your mind and join with him so that he advertises your project looking as his and will soon be playable, and then your project will be released (and looking different).
A bit like Sony did show screenshots of CGI cut-scenes of PS2 games and say it was in-game graphics before the PS2 was released.

by on (#23701)
Fx3 wrote:
Anyway, where's Mr. WedNESday $0.02 about this stupidity? :D


Please, my £0.02.

Well, my b******t alarm went off the minute I saw that title screenshot. I could sit here and offer my five million reasons why I know that it is a fake, but I gotta go to work. I'll just say a couple of things, such as Bregalad is right about why this guy hasn't posted it in this forum. All we've heard from this guy is talk, nothing more. How about a copy of the .nes ROM so we can test it ourselves? It looks pretty much complete (except maybe for levels). Why not use his webcam to film a short clip of him playing on his NES or a NES emulator if he cannot get it to work on a real NES? And he says it only works on his NES-DVDROM? Then it is of no use if we cannot play it ourselves. Since pretty much none of use have one of those and it doesn't work on an emulator or real NES, then no-one will want a copy.

If you watch the small .mov file, you'll see NO flickering even when there are blatantly more than eight sprites on a scanline (the bit with the fishes).

On the other hand, it's going to be might embarrasing if this turns out to be real... :oops:

by on (#23702)
Generally, video captures from genesis emulators with layers disabled NEVER turn out to be genuine nes games.
Along with screenshots with reduced palettes and noise added with photoshop.

by on (#23703)
1 - His game is not supposed to run in an emulator, since this is no normal NES cartridge. The videos are supposed to be taken from the real hardware.

2 - The only way to know if the project is real or not is to continue questioning him. The goal isn't to crush him, just to have him take his lesson if he needs to. If the thing happens to be real, then we should learn from it too, instead of being embarassed.

by on (#23704)
If that troll ported Sonic 2 from the Genesis to the NES the way he says he did it, then I'm the original designer of the C programming language (which would have been quite a feat, seeing as how I wasn't even born at the time).

by on (#23709)
Could a NES guru answer me?
Quote:
There is a memory upgrade done to this machine.. I am using a DVD-ROM drive I build for the NES (that uses the bottom expansion port), which uses a BIOS "cartridge".. The drive has 2MB of RAM, 768K of it exclusive only to the drive, the rest to the NES, and the drive.. The drive runs on an NEC V30..


Umm... does the NES accept memory expansion, not upgrade? Will the 6502 work differently? Should the board be hacked in order to make it possible? Plus, the expansion port goes through $4017, right? How could a programmer get this port usefull, as data in/out?

Quote:
For sprite limitations, I made a routine that emulates directly drawing pixel by pixel (essentially emulating a frame buffer).. This also got me around the sprite 4-color limitation..


So... you're NOT using the sprite RAM, but throwing everything into a 'frame buffer', or the background rendering, the nametables..? I just remembered of some Konami games using OAM cycle for some limitations, but I dunno it's the same case anyway... -_-;; Here's the proof:
Quote:
the NEC V30 is just taking a tile, assigning colors, and pretty much saying "NES, here's your tiles, and the colors you are to use for them."
hehehehe :P

Quote:
The mapper I am using is the NEC V30 CPU on the drive, it is emulating the function of a frame buffer (by the BIOS on the drive itself...) it's address lines were essentially divided between the drive itself, and the NES... (it also routes the memory calls)


Which model, please? Plus, a 16-bit CMOS microprocessor being interfaced with a custom 8-bit 6502? You see this quote does not make much sense...

Quote:
The region is NTSC-America (if there's a difference between the Japanese NTSC system)..


Uhh... yeah. It's perfectly possible to run a japanese cart into a 72-pin slot. Of course, as far as I know, extra sound won't work (Konami VRC6, as example). The Famicom has a few differences in its hardware, and you seem to unknown your own words about 'region'. Anyway, PAL and NTSC are the difference: PAL requires a larger time per frame.

Quote:
The watter effect was done via the same way it was done on the Genesis, as that was a direct port from the Genesis code.. It's a mid-screen palette switch... The NES isn't known for doing this well, or at all.. The NEC V30 on the drive aids this for the NES, by directly accessing the NES CRAM and modifying the values itself (also by monitoring where on the level you are..) You can notice an effect of the V30 playing "catch up" in 2 frames.. Right when sonic goes down low enough, notice TWO frames are exactly the same, except on one frame, the watter is too low, not even in place, where the other frame the water "caught up"...~


Wtf? You're misunderstanding the things. The NES can kick your *ss with color emphasis, which would make sense. I don't know about 'mid-screen palette writes' though... since it implies the PPU address change. Plus, is possible to modify the NES RAM (whatever RAM) by using an external device during the code execution? o.O

Quote:
Come to think of it, the bogging might be the frame buffer emulation, and the DVD drive attachment doing nothing but "peeking" at memory (which does take a cycle from the NES's 6502 clone)..


<sarcasm>Yes, my DVD player has a NES emulator with frameskipping!</sarcasm>

by on (#23710)
Reminds me of the rumored "Hellraiser cart" and the Super NES SA-1 coprocessor.

by on (#23711)
No one ask him for a schematic/firmware for his dvd interface yet? :P

by on (#23712)
gannon wrote:
No one ask him for a schematic/firmware for his dvd interface yet? :P

Even a picture of this dvd unit connected to an NES. A few people have asked to see this and he has yet to produce one. Not that this proves anything but without seeing a schematic he's just blowing smoke. Reminds me of the emails kevtris has on his site where someone accused kevtris of stealing his ideas ... and yet he never proved it.

by on (#23713)
Quote:
Umm... does the NES accept memory expansion, not upgrade? Will the 6502 work differently? Should the board be hacked in order to make it possible? Plus, the expansion port goes through $4017, right? How could a programmer get this port usefull, as data in/out?

Not exclusively, on the NES the expansion port has acess to audio output and input, and video output (possibly input, I dunno). It has axess to the cart expantion pins (that's where their name is from, actualy the pins are just shared by the cart and the expansion port and the cartrige connector without affecting the console in any way), the expansion port has also acess to the unregulated power suply, the CIC clock line (both of them have really the less use I can think of), and the A15 adress missing on the cart connector (a cart that would need it could use an adaptater and pass it trough expantion pins, but this isn't needed because A15 can be reconsituted by inverting /PRG).
On the other hand, the famicom expantion port just has acess to some joypad I/O pins (mapped to $4016/7) but he didn't mention the famicom.
Quote:

So... you're NOT using the sprite RAM, but throwing everything into a 'frame buffer', or the background rendering, the nametables..? I just remembered of some Konami games using OAM cycle for some limitations, but I dunno it's the same case anyway... -_-;; Here's the proof:

Actually this is perfectly possible as long as you only have 4 colors (or the same set of 4 colors for each horizontal chunk of 8 pixels, and no more than 13 colors overall). You could get original Gameboy-like graphics with "unlimited sprites" using only BG. However, his Sonic screenshots doesn't look like original Gameboy graphics.
(hey, who is the next to make a NES carts with a build-in Z80 and GB PPU wich play GB games ? And you get the not-Super Game Boy).
Quote:
They're not dumb. Seeing he's been around long, and made over 1000 posts, they logically trust him.

Note that he god all of them by double, triple or quadruple posting.

by on (#23715)
Dwedit wrote:
Oh noes! We've been found out! RUN!!!
Yes, this morning, I saw someone posted a link to this thread. Looks like that post got deleted afterwards.

by on (#23716)
hap wrote:
I saw someone posted a link to this thread. Looks like that post got deleted afterwards.

Why? I see no problem with them linking back here... why would they?

The thing is that the guy made everyone believe the game was running on a stock NES, something he only denied when we started asking questions.

But I completely lost interest in revealing this fake when he talked about his special DVD drive. If it is something no one else's got but him, I couldn't care less if the game is fake or not. It's not like he's promising to sell this game or anything, so let him play... If other people fall for that, well... they're not losing anything either.

If he likes to downsample images and sounds and pretend he's playing a functional new game, just let him.

In fact, even if this was true and he got the game running with his magical DVD drive and it's awesome famebuffer, I couldn't care less. This is not a NES, it's just some wacky hack of a platform.

I'm perfectly fine with not thinking about this ever again. But let's just see how it goes. I have no intention of posting there ever again, unless something interesting happens.

by on (#23717)
tokumaru wrote:
It's not like he's promising to sell this game or anything, so let him play...

He don't have the right to sell Sonic anyway, since this is a trademark of Sega. Nor you do, regardless if this is a real NES or a DVD-drive. Only Sega could sell his stuff technically, and they sure won't.

by on (#23718)
Bregalad wrote:
Nor you do

Sure, and I never had the intention to. But people will be able to download it for free.

What I said is that the guy isn't promising anything, so no one will be disappointed when he doesn't deliver it.

He'll eventually get tired of playing, and everyone will soon forget about this.

by on (#23721)
Here are two other related threads:

http://nfggames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2119
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2117

It doesn't seem like this guy is going to stop, just ignore...

by on (#23722)
This is incredible !! What this fool have to gain to try to fool other people to the bone with his "incredible projects" and he always says "I think I've done this..." and he never states facts clearly. What a badass.

by on (#23725)
This makes a lot of sense...

by on (#23727)
Hello. I am the mod at Sega-16 who deleted the thread that pointed to this one. Why? Because I REALLY like the questions you guys are asking evildragon, and it is too soon for it to turn into a flame/insult war (Tokumaru's latest post was worded very well without being insulting). You guys keep a cool head about it, and I like that. If you have noticed, I have asked him some interesting questions as well (though not as technical). Notice the amount of time between when I ask him for a shot of a special stage to when he actually posts a screen. Not much. And when I saw the videos with frame skipping instead of just running them ssslllloowwwlllyyy I became suspicious.

But it is good entertainment. Just don't be an ass and all things will be cool.

by on (#23730)
Joe Redifer wrote:
Because I REALLY like the questions you guys are asking evildragon, and it is too soon for it to turn into a flame/insult war (Tokumaru's latest post was worded very well without being insulting).

Ahhh! Yeah, at first I was overreacting a little about this, but thanks to Bregalad's suggestion of asking questions instead of flaming, things ended up pretty well. I would have regretted saying what i first intended to.

I have no intention of starting a fight (like the one in that other thread), we're better off just asking questions. That guy is very dodgy though, so I've just given up. I really don't care about the authenticity of his projects anymore.

Quote:
If you have noticed, I have asked him some interesting questions as well (though not as technical).

Yeah, I got that. I really found it strange that before we got there, people were really taking it all as the truth, without asking (even non-technical) questions. I get the impression that people treat him as a kid sometimes...

Quote:
But it is good entertainment. Just don't be an ass and all things will be cool.

I admit I'm still curious as to how all of this will end. I don't want to fight, and when I say I lost the interest in the project i really mean it. Fake or real, makes no difference to me anymore.

I really hope he comes up with more material though, it is fun to see it. But My guess is that he will eventually get tired of it. Then maybe come up with an excuse of why it isn't working out and he'll drop it. Everyone will probably forget about this soon.

by on (#23732)
I bet this is the same person as the one with the Zelda III NES proto :lol:
I just don't get what's driving them.. what do they get from tricking people? They only destroy for everyone by creating mistrust and flame wars. I see them just as annoying as spammers.

by on (#23734)
This person reaks of sasquatch shit.

by on (#23735)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
This person reaks of sasquatch shit.


That's true, y'know. A sasquatch lives at the end of my garden and he's always using the lavatory without asking, and he NEVER flushes, either. :lol:

So what do we do now? If he can't release a ROM for us to try, the there is no way for us to authenticate it. We can only sit here and call him a fraud and wait until he admits it.

by on (#23736)
Hey, a great idea would be to oragnize a big contest where everyone bring up a complete fake project. Then the others would ask lots of technical quesitons, and ask for proofs and so on. For each pictures that looks authentic or for each technical info that seems reasonabe, you would get some amount of point. And at the end, when others can have enough proofs that your project is fake, then your total points are set. And the one with most total points gets a price ! Doesn't that sound exciting ?

Of course, evildragon would be the arbiter since he cannot participate in the contest (he cheats all the way) and he have the most experience in the domain.

Quote:
If he can't release a ROM for us to try, the there is no way for us to authenticate it.

He's not that much idiot : For this very reason he invented that DVD-drive stuff, so his thing is not supposed to run in a ROM.
Still, his project is still much more credible than the fake FFX NES I mentionned above (that doesn't mean it's credible). The guy said some stuff that could be real and has technical knownledge here and there.
And actually most game collectors have much more of what I call "fake technical knownledge" wich are their own interpretation of completely deformed technical facts.

by on (#23737)
Bregalad wrote:
Hey, a great idea would be to oragnize a big contest where everyone bring up a complete fake project. Then the others would ask lots of technical quesitons, and ask for proofs and so on. For each pictures that looks authentic or for each technical info that seems reasonabe, you would get some amount of point. And at the end, when others can have enough proofs that your project is fake, then your total points are set. And the one with most total points gets a price ! Doesn't that sound exciting ?

Of course, evildragon would be the arbiter since he cannot participate in the contest (he cheats all the way) and he have the most experience in the domain.

I don't know, it's way too easy to make a completely plausible and technically correct, but not-actually-in-the-works project.
Or would this contest be more geared towards Zelda 3 prototype games?

by on (#23738)
Yeah, I can proof I have an european Contra prototype anytime, based on the original japanese game with cutscenes. I can take all the pictures you want :wink: .

by on (#23739)
dXtr wrote:
I bet this is the same person as the one with the Zelda III NES proto :lol:
I just don't get what's driving them.. what do they get from tricking people? They only destroy for everyone by creating mistrust and flame wars. I see them just as annoying as spammers.

Well, they do have the same trick of taking their screenshots focused entirely on the TV (and usually in a darkened room) so you can't see what's hooked up to the TV...hint: certain PowerMac video cards have composite video jacks...

by on (#23740)
Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
If he can't release a ROM for us to try, the there is no way for us to authenticate it.

He's not that much idiot : For this very reason he invented that DVD-drive stuff, so his thing is not supposed to run in a ROM.

Then why not release a UDF so that we can make a new mapper plug-in that runs his program?

commodorejohn wrote:
they do have the same trick of taking their screenshots focused entirely on the TV (and usually in a darkened room) so you can't see what's hooked up to the TV...hint: certain PowerMac video cards have composite video jacks...

But on a lot of TV output cards, you can't turn off underscan. If you see what looks like a border around the edges of the screen, you're looking at a PC output, which is either an emulator or a complete fake.

by on (#23742)
If this guy was a type of Flame Warrior, he'd be Profundus Maximus.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warrio ... aximus.htm

By the way tepples, I could not download your nsf file for some reason. :-(

by on (#23743)
Just a check, how authentic does this look ?

by on (#23744)
Pfft. That looks fourth-rate, amateurish. Anyone with 5 minutes and a copy of mspaint.exe could do that. Just give me the file, and I'll write in light-grey text on transparent background, then rotate 180 degrees and paste.

And I'm not even sure those numbers stand up to scrutiny either.

by on (#23745)
I didn't use MSPaint, but Irfan View (wich can do a lot more stuff).
And feel free to do a better one if you want.

by on (#23746)
Meh, I'll pass. Thanks. :-)

by on (#23749)
Lolol I'm porteeng supar mar-e-o sixteh fur to the nez lolols

lol brb photoshopping more picz.

Image

by on (#23750)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
Lolol I'm porteeng supar mar-e-o sixteh fur to the nez lolols

lol brb photoshopping more picz.

Image


[uber sarcasm]
Oh wow! When can we expect the ROM?
[/uber sarcasm]

by on (#23752)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
Lolol I'm porteeng supar mar-e-o sixteh fur to the nez lolols

If you use an isometric engine like that of Snake Rattle 'n' Roll or Super Mario RPG, something like SM64 on 2D systems might be doable.

by on (#23753)
tepples wrote:
If you use an isometric engine like that of Snake Rattle 'n' Roll or Super Mario RPG, something like SM64 on 2D systems might be doable.

That is the deal... most things can be done, you just have to rething the whole concept for the new (old) platform, instead of just "porting" the original game.

by on (#23754)
tepples wrote:
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
Lolol I'm porteeng supar mar-e-o sixteh fur to the nez lolols

If you use an isometric engine like that of Snake Rattle 'n' Roll or Super Mario RPG, something like SM64 on 2D systems might be doable.


Just don't tell evildragon that.

by on (#23761)
WedNESday wrote:
tepples wrote:
If you use an isometric engine [...] something like SM64 on 2D systems might be doable.

Just don't tell evildragon that.

On the other hand, I'd like to see him try to PS together a mock-up of isometric SM64.

by on (#23766)
You mean see him port the SM64 graphics engine to an isometric tile-mapped one right?

by on (#23770)
That guy was fired by the admin, as another fake thing after that MacOS and MegaDrive bullsh*t. Go visit the last page... ;)

by on (#23771)
WedNESday wrote:
[uber sarcasm]
Oh wow! When can we expect the ROM?
[/uber sarcasm]


Right after I port this PS24 game into a game & watch handheld that can project 3D images with mutating liquid crystal that you can program to form a shape, no longer having to limit LCD screens by carving in places in the screen where the liquid crystal goes into.

btw the game is called Halo 2945, which has features like feeling sensations that don't even exist in real life, and has deca-demension graphics, with a processor that's made out of dog feces, which works aprox. 192.4738493 times faster than a PS3, and it has DDDRAM.Image


Oh and lol @ that guy getting fired.

by on (#23773)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
Right after I port this PS24 game into a game & watch handheld that can project 3D images with mutating liquid crystal that you can program to form a shape, no longer having to limit LCD screens by carving in places in the screen where the liquid crystal goes into.


[uber sarcasm]
Oh wow! When can we expect the handheld?
[/uber sarcasm]

by on (#23774)
Quote:
(and for the record, I always know the NES resolution, it's 256x240.. every NES programmer knows that.. the 320x224 image was a mockup, and yes, that WAS from a Genesis emulator capture, using Gens KMod, and I used the same algorithm to compile NES tiles, to get a raw image data, to compare from the palette used on the real NES... I had to do that as I have no development kit for my stuff...)


After that, I have nothing more to ask. It's a complete fake.

by on (#23775)
This is the best handheld of all time:
Image
Action Game Master

by on (#23776)
Wtf? o.O Never heard of it... :D

by on (#23777)
Hey, are anyone definitely interested in actually making a contest about fake projects ? Some people here seems to have great ideas for candidatures.

by on (#23781)
Halo 2 on a PlayStation
Photo of PS1 playing Halo 2

Halo 2 on a Game Boy Advance
What is it?

Nintendo SD
Photo
(I shopped this when I learned that the DS Card savegame interface is SPI, one of the electrical interfaces that SD cards can use.)

Nintendo Twist, the DS's successor with a pivotable 480x272 pixel or 272x480 pixel touch screen
Drawing of fully opened screen

KLAX: Amplitude Edition
Screenshot

I'm making a Sonic clone. Here's a screenshot from my level editor's metatile slope view.
Each tile has one line segment, colored red or yellow in this pic

I'm making an Animal Crossing clone. You can catch colored squids at the beach and sell them to Tom Nook's counterpart, who milks them for printer ink.
Bloopers

By alternating the color palettes, I can get more colors per sprite on the NES:
It's-a-me, Mario!

by on (#23782)
damn, sorry guys, i didn't know i let the hoax go for 5 days.. my hoaxes are only supposed to last for 4 days (that's how you can tell if i made a hoax or not)..

reason for semi-authentic pics and videos: i have experience in phothshop, and IMAGE-READY (used for the video).. i set them all to 8 color GIFs with Perceptual palletts, and no dithering (to remove suspicion)..

oh, and the temper tantrum, that was to make it look as authentic as possible.. i thought this was only day 3..

hopefully that clears things up.. and i knew this thread was here all along ;) (i was PMed about it since you guys came to the forum).. quick answers were prepared via a mix of real knoledge, and humor...

EDIT: oh, and hi joe.. i thought i warned you this was a hoax, my bad..

don't worry guys too.. this was my last hoax ever.. i wanted it to be suspensfull, before i retire my hoaxes, and go to being true and honest... my original hoax being the OS X on a Dell laptop one.. (it was VNC)..

by on (#23783)
Seems like a complete waste of time to me.

If you make a NES game, and it doesn't work on a real NES or at least an extremely good emulator and 99% on a real NES, then it isn't a NES game, sorry. I know that it wasn't his aim all along, but still, it's a NES or nothing at all.

by on (#23784)
that's why i want the hoax to only last 4 days, and not forever.. 4 days isn't much to waste, especially when you can easily brush it off, and know it's a fake.. that's why i "took breaks" ;) cause i wanted to do other things than sit there hoaxing.. i got a life too, mines in a technical college (but no job yet).

by on (#23785)
oh, and if anyone of you DO want me to photoshop something, to get my view on what it would look like on the NES, let me know, i pull these things out fairly quick..

this is what i do..

Make all the pixel work at native NES resolution.
Index the color to a selected size, and algorithm
Bring it back to RGB
Motion blur by 1 pixel (this is the fake blending effect I did)
Resize it to 580x480 using Bilinear filtering
Make the canvas size 640x480 with a black background
Flatten the layer if needed
Add small amount of noise
Motion blur again, but by 2 pixels now.
Save the image

and that is how you get a fake TV snapshot..

(i do have a TV tuner, with a BT878, but no way was i going that far XD)

EDIT: And if you want to know how the music clips were done, it was via Native Instruments FM7.. I used a MIDI controller for the most part, and was stuck with only 3 note polyphonics (there was 2 squares, and a triangle, assigned to each note, depending on what i pushed first, hence why it sounded like crap.. i kept forgetting what the order was, when playing it)

by on (#23788)
and if you guys want an honest part on this, i have actually planned a DVD "player" that got controlled by the NES.. note: NOT a storage device, just a player..

the intended use for this was stupid, play a movie, and control it with the NES controller, and use the NES PPU to draw the on-screen graphics...

i never completed this project.. heck, it was never over 20% complete...

by on (#23789)
If you ask me it should have lasted one day less to have kept the fun complete (this last one turned pretty bad).

Yeah, the music sounded so horrible... For the graphics, some will say the opposite, but that was pretty decent, exept for sprites and dithering.
The method to "fed tiles in the NES" you described is completely possible, however, but with only 4 colors. If you want to make a 4-tune monochrome graphic driver for the NES (but with a lot more complex graphics, lots of scrolling planes and sprites, 3D effects or anything), it'd be a cool project.

by on (#23792)
Bregalad wrote:
If you ask me it should have lasted one day less to have kept the fun complete (this last one turned pretty bad).

Yeah, the music sounded so horrible... For the graphics, some will say the opposite, but that was pretty decent, exept for sprites and dithering.
The method to "fed tiles in the NES" you described is completely possible, however, but with only 4 colors. If you want to make a 4-tune monochrome graphic driver for the NES (but with a lot more complex graphics, lots of scrolling planes and sprites, 3D effects or anything), it'd be a cool project.

well, as i said, i got experience with photoshop.. (and on the other forum), i do have some technical background with the NES... i know what it can, and can't do..

i wanted there to be a mixture of truth, and fakenes... btw, just to see one more shot, here's the composition of this post, from the NES ;) j/k

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/nes.jpg

(i believe this time i chose authentic palette colors)

by on (#23793)
LOL !!
Then you could have make up a better fake, I think. It would have made our job to dismiss it harder and funier.

by on (#23796)
Nice joke, my dear child. However, you won't be able to cheat us a second time, even with truth, which you lack it. What's your purpose on this? You fool. :|

by on (#23798)
Fx3 wrote:
Nice joke, my dear child. However, you won't be able to cheat us a second time, even with truth, which you lack it. What's your purpose on this? You fool. :|

there won't be a second time, this was my last hoax ever.. im done with it, because the stress it bears is bad enough..

the purpose for it, however, well, there was none.. being my last hoax, i just wanted something quick to do...

as stated though, i do know some NES stuff, but that hoax was purposely error-filled..

by on (#23799)
Bregalad wrote:
LOL !!
Then you could have make up a better fake, I think. It would have made our job to dismiss it harder and funier.
i was kinda doing school work, while trying to make the original hoax in the first place.. since the color palette was already mentioned, i was like "crap, i goofed!".. so i tried to play along with it, as long as i could.. that's when i realized my 4-day hoax limit passed, and admitted it..

i was gonna use my NES emulator to hoax it authentically, but it's simulate NTSC artifacts option crashes the emulator (Nestopia).. it used to work, prior to the update..

by on (#23800)
TIP: For completely authentic NES music, use NT2.

Bregalad wrote:
The method to "fed tiles in the NES" you described is completely possible, however, but with only 4 colors.

And it's exactly what Wide Boy (a Game Boy that displays its graphics through a Famicom) and Super Game Boy (the same thing adapted to Super NES and commercialized) do.

Quote:
If you want to make a 4-tune monochrome graphic driver for the NES (but with a lot more complex graphics, lots of scrolling planes and sprites, 3D effects or anything), it'd be a cool project.

It wouldn't even need to be monochrome. For each 8x1 pixel sliver, the tile translation circuitry could determine whether reds, greens, blues, or grays dominate and send out the appropriate attribute code. The ultimate project would be a TV tuner for the NES; that would enable all sorts of hoaxes.

by on (#23801)
Image

by on (#23802)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
Image

you do realize it's over, right? and so what if im autistic.. im done using that as an excuse, cause im done hoaxing...

(but i am though... asperger syndrome..)

(not to mention that's a bit rude....)

by on (#23803)
tepples wrote:
The ultimate project would be a TV tuner for the NES; that would enable all sorts of hoaxes.

who would even make an ADC for that? that would be pretty complicated, i would assume..

by on (#23804)
evildragon wrote:
i wanted there to be a mixture of truth, and fakenes... btw, just to see one more shot, here's the composition of this post, from the NES ;) j/k

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/nes.jpg


Nice. :lol:

Well, your hoax was almost believable. I kinda figured it was fake when you said you'd done all that in 2 months, but definitely sounded fake when you mentioned having the V30 halt the NES CPU to read from it's memory. That would be doable perhaps if the NES mainboard was modified, but definitely not through the expansion port or a cart.

But it was somewhat interesting to follow, the coprocessor framebuffer thing was something I thought of designing before (but probably won't due to costs better spent on a different design). All you'd have to do is put a CPU on cart with some crazy-ass CHR memory controller logic.

I actually do have a cart design with a coprocessor, a PIC18F. NES can write to it's parallel port, and the PIC gives the NES an IRQ to let the NES read from it. I wrote a little sound synth that runs on the PIC and feeds to the NES's DAC through software, it sounded so good I probably would think it was fake if I didn't know any better, heheh.

by on (#23805)
Memblers wrote:
evildragon wrote:
i wanted there to be a mixture of truth, and fakenes... btw, just to see one more shot, here's the composition of this post, from the NES ;) j/k

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/nes.jpg


Nice. :lol:

Well, your hoax was almost believable. I kinda figured it was fake when you said you'd done all that in 2 months, but definitely sounded fake when you mentioned having the V30 halt the NES CPU to read from it's memory. That would be doable perhaps if the NES mainboard was modified, but definitely not through the expansion port or a cart.

But it was somewhat interesting to follow, the coprocessor framebuffer thing was something I thought of designing before (but probably won't due to costs better spent on a different design). All you'd have to do is put a CPU on cart with some crazy-ass CHR memory controller logic.

I actually do have a cart design with a coprocessor, a PIC18F. NES can write to it's parallel port, and the PIC gives the NES an IRQ to let the NES read from it. I wrote a little sound synth that runs on the PIC and feeds to the NES's DAC through software, it sounded so good I probably would think it was fake if I didn't know any better, heheh.

sounds like a cool project.. what i wanted to do personally was already done: a MIDI implementation for the NES.. that sucker cost a lot though..

atleast the NES "can" output stereo (with the propper mod, which my NES went though), and making a synth out of it could be quite awesome...

by on (#23807)
one thing i am curious about, is if the expansion port really does have video in.. what would it be used for? does the NES have overlaying hardware? (like, VHS video on NES graphics?)

seems weird.. i'd understand the audio in/out, and the video out, but not the video in.. (or possibly just a video switch.. when NES is off, anything connected there passes through..)

if that pin exists, i'll find it..

EDIT: It don't..

http://www.hardwarebook.info/NES_Expansion_port

by on (#23808)
evildragon wrote:
you do realize it's over, right? and so what if im autistic.. im done using that as an excuse, cause im done hoaxing...

(but i am though... asperger syndrome..)

(not to mention that's a bit rude....)


Sorry I had to let that out.
Don't worry. I'm ADD. Just because people aren't diagnosed with stuff doesn't mean they don't have problems.

by on (#23809)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
evildragon wrote:
you do realize it's over, right? and so what if im autistic.. im done using that as an excuse, cause im done hoaxing...

(but i am though... asperger syndrome..)

(not to mention that's a bit rude....)


Sorry I had to let that out.
Don't worry. I'm ADD. Just because people aren't diagnosed with stuff doesn't mean they don't have problems.

i got ADHD, autism, asthma, allergies.. i got the worst of life.. (well, not the worst.. there's people out there that got it pretty bad)

i actually hate labels. i think doctors just like calling people autistic, just because they ran out of things to say...

i mean, isn't that what makes us all unique?

by on (#23825)
What the hell makes people diagnosed with autism anyway?

And yes there's people out there with worse, trust me, one of those people are my friend.

by on (#23826)
CKY-2K/Clay Man wrote:
What the hell makes people diagnosed with autism anyway?

And yes there's people out there with worse, trust me, one of those people are my friend.

for me, it's the fact that i can learn one thing, but not the other.. seriously, that's how they labeled me.. for example, i can learn a programming language, and learn how to use AV editing software, but when it comes to english and math, i suck... (so when programming, i always have a programmers calculator handy)

by on (#23840)
evildragon wrote:
one thing i am curious about, is if the expansion port really does have video in.. what would it be used for? does the NES have overlaying hardware? (like, VHS video on NES graphics?)

The other way around, NES graphics overlaid on VHS video -- but the required hardware isn't inside of the regular NES.

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chri ... itler.html

by on (#23841)
Hah, now if evildragon would just finish that NES-based DVD controller, we could combine it with the FC Titler and have NES-based Laserdisc games.

by on (#23847)
well, it might not be hard to do.. use the video out on the NES, and use some overlaying circuit, like this: http://www.viennawireless.org/balloon/h ... /index.php

(though that circuit won't give you NES graphics....)

it could be done, but i don't think you'll get very advanced with it.. without a doubt however, you'll need to mix the video outside the NES...

by on (#23867)
Actually, that page that ccovell linked describes a Famiclone that does video overlay; that's what I was referring to. Just develop a DVD-controller cart of some sort, and BAMMO! Instant LD adventure game on NES.

by on (#23871)
commodorejohn wrote:
Actually, that page that ccovell linked describes a Famiclone that does video overlay; that's what I was referring to. Just develop a DVD-controller cart of some sort, and BAMMO! Instant LD adventure game on NES.
i only have an american NES, and that lacks video input.. it could be done if video passed through it..

by on (#23879)
oh, and for hoaxes go, just to test you guys, what do you think, this screenshot a hoax, or real TV tuner capture? I know the answer cause this is my image, but I wanna see if you guys can truly spot a fake, or an authentic image..

Image

by on (#23880)
It looks like a video capture of a Sega Genesis to me, though considering that I've released several TMS9918-style NTSC filters, it could have been made with one of those. It's definitely not something made in Photoshop, as the signature artifacts of that video chip aren't easy to fake. The unfinished blue scanline at the bottom points to video capture.

by on (#23881)
yep, that's a true capture... that is what my BT878 really looks like (with the 32X, hence the over-brightened image)... if it was an actually TV broadcast, then my BT878 captures like this:

Image

by on (#23889)
blargg wrote:
The unfinished blue scanline at the bottom points to video capture.

I was gonna say it was hardware because of the garbage pixels in the bottom border where the game is writing to CRAM and thus you get classic "snow" at those points, which doesn't happen on any emulator.

by on (#23902)
A compilers primary task is to create the binary, it's secondary is to make sure the code is efficient. Plus if you are writing code for an exam which isnt' to be compiled, then the examiner might deduct points or whatever.

God bless you admin, btw.

by on (#23918)
LocalH wrote:
I was gonna say it was hardware because of the garbage pixels in the bottom border where the game is writing to CRAM and thus you get classic "snow" at those points, which doesn't happen on any emulator.

It happens on at least one NES emulator I know of. Or has nobody tried to make a Genesis emulator whose VDP accuracy approaches Nintendulator's PPU accuracy?

by on (#23922)
It's probably not as big a deal for Genesis emulators because fewer Genesis games rely on critical PPU timing than NES games; Final Fantasy, for instance, has an effect when you relight an Orb wherein the color emphasis (or the background color, I'm not sure,) is switched not only on a scanline basis, but in mid-scanline. I'm sure there are some Genesis games that do such tricks, but they're few and far between.

by on (#23928)
tepples wrote:
It happens on at least one NES emulator I know of. Or has nobody tried to make a Genesis emulator whose VDP accuracy approaches Nintendulator's PPU accuracy?

Well, in that context I meant "any Genesis emulator", but yeah you're right. If the VDP were emulated with the same accuracy as modern PPU emulation then such artifacts would indeed appear. Kega is quite accurate in terms of game compatibility, but it doesn't support some things at all (for example, on hardware, you can change the backdrop register mid-scanline to create "raster splits" - Kega ignores this completely). I remember hearing about a project recently to create a highly accurate Genesis emulator, but I think the guy behind it is busy IRL ATM.

Due to the layer of indirection between the 68k and VDP RAM, it's not that feasible to modify much of said RAM mid-scanline, although it's definitely possible (although I don't have the numbers handy off the top of my head as to how many times the 68k can hit VDP RAM during a scanline with the screen enabled). Thankfully, the Genesis has DMA, which enables you to modify more data in a scanline than you otherwise could if the 68k had to shuffle everything around. I've ruminated before about a software-based graphics mode that changes 8 colors per scanline, so that each scanline has 8 old colors from the line above and 8 new colors.

Plus, there's also the problem with CPU jitter, where the code's exact execution point has a slight bit of variance between frames, meaning that unless you set up a "stable raster" (as it's known on the C64), any such raster splits will jitter violently. I have not looked into what would have to be done to get a stable raster on the Genesis.