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How much have changed regarding editor/ide?

How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221360)
Since I'm a little bit more active these days and this topic seems to come back once in a while, I just want to see how much thing changed in the last 10 years.

When I started in 2007, there was not much to use and I was a windows guy. I ended up using notepad++ with some custom markup I made for cc65 and I was more than happy with it. I contemplated to make my custom editor in c# but nescicide came out just at the exact same time so I gave up on that idea (which in retrospect, was the right decision ^^;;).

Now fast-forward to today, I'm back to program a little bit on the nes, been using mac/linux based on my needs at work so my tool-set changed a lot. Even though I was not fond of electron based editors (too heavy memory footprint) and tried to avoid them, Visual studio code became actually good, is now multiplatform (was not at first) and can be used with the same configuration on windows/mac/linux. With the c/c++ plugin by Microsoft and the MADS one for 6502, I can edit my projects and it smart enough for autocomplete in many situation. It's not perfect but for now it the best I found that can be used on multiple platforms. Now that I'm not specifically on windows any more, I do not use batch files but a more versatile Makefile which work almost on all 3 of them.

So what do people uses these days? Did your tools/editor changed or some improved compared to how they were in the last 10 years?
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221368)
I'm personally still using Notepad++ for everything, with custom syntax highlighting.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221374)
I just use vim.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221376)
https://github.com/sjPlot/Relaunch64 it has CA65 highlighting and auto completion, its in Java so runs on basically anything.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221388)
@NovaSquirrel

I see. What I like with vscode is that you have a list of all your symbols. If you do C code for CC65, it will find all of them. If a plugin could be done for ca65 then I could do the same thing with asm. For now, asm is only the colored syntax.

@pubby

I always wanted to use vim but never found the time to learn all the shortcut so I only uses it when I do minor update on text from the command line. Would love to learn it someday.

@Oziphantom

Oh, that's an interesting one, I didn't know about it. Will give it a try. Thanks!
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221395)
I used to use notepad++ for what little i did, but bought sublime since i find it 1)easier on my eyes, 2)helping me orient and focus better. I’m a scatterbrain and easily overstimulated/distracted, so these quite minimal improvements help me.

For highlighting, i found something on github and made a few changes. It’s not perfect but works.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221396)
I have stuck with EDIT.COM and mostly because I absolutely require the ability to place cursor anywhere on the text area and seems very few editors have that, the few I have found have always been worse or have no Win32 version available. I have slowly been making my own that has that and also some things that aid programming (like listing functions/labels and variables, count cycles and whatnot) but there's still a lot of work to be done and motivations are actually low lol.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221397)
TmEE that is known as "Borland" style and http://www.contexteditor.org/index.php does it too, with scripts on keys, tabs, 6502 highlighter and a few other nice things.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221398)
Mostly gvim on Linux here.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221401)
Oziphantom wrote:
TmEE that is known as "Borland" style and http://www.contexteditor.org/index.php does it too, with scripts on keys, tabs, 6502 highlighter and a few other nice things.
Now that's nice, and it even works on Win95 on my 486 ! I'll definitely be playing around with it, thänk you ~
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221403)
TmEE wrote:
I have stuck with EDIT.COM and mostly because I absolutely require the ability to place cursor anywhere on the text area and seems very few editors have that, the few I have found have always been worse or have no Win32 version available.

1- Download & install vim/gvim
2- Open a file with gvim
3- :set ve=all
4- Tada, you can place the cursor anywhere on the text area
5- For the function list, there's a lot of plugins so one should probably do what you want, in the worst case you can script it in the editor.

I have yet to see an IDE that embed a perfect clone of vim; the closest to that is the one in Qt Creator. The Eclipse plugin Vrapper is just so incomplete. For now I mostly edit files in vim and sometimes use the IDE for advanced stuff (e.g. refactoring that is more than search/replace).
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221411)
It seems vim is very popular. I guess I should earn to use it a little bit more. I'm so used to the mouse these days that the vim paradigm, although interesting, is hard to get used unless you know enough commands. I do use it for quick review of generated asm files in my build folder.

@TmEE

edit.com? That brings memories :) I didn't use that one in a while. I liked the color theme of it.

@FrankenGraphics

In vscode there is a lot of theme that are easy on the eye. This is one reason that I switched to it, compared to notepad++ (and intellisense, which is becoming better and better with every release). I can share a screenshot later of my current theme.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221412)
emacs 4evah!

;)
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221423)
Banshaku wrote:
It seems vim is very popular. I guess I should earn to use it a little bit more. I'm so used to the mouse these days that the vim paradigm, although interesting, is hard to get used unless you know enough commands. I do use it for quick review of generated asm files in my build folder.


It takes some commitment to get good enough at it that it's actually helpful. I never would have learned if I didn't have a summer internship where they only editor on our development machines was vanilla vi. (not even vim) It was a terrible job, but at least I came away with a life skill.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221430)
I didn't get into NESDev until ~2012 or so but I think I would have been fairly satisfied with tools available in 2007, though I also think there's been many minor improvements in the kind of tools I would have used then that might amount to a lot in aggregate.

I'm pretty comfortable with Notepad++ (with a 6502 syntax highlighting) and FCEUX's debugger at my primary tools.

I would say that Python has become a very important supplementary tool for me. It's very convenient for processing scripts, e.g. feeding debug symbols to FCEUX, building music data...

I've seen things like NesicIDE which seem to offer a more integrated thing, and they're kinda neat but so far I've never personally found a compelling reason to jump over to them. Even Mesen, which has a very capable debugger and a lot of neat features, I still mostly prefer FCEUX. (Though I do try a lot of things in multiple emulators. I use both Mesen and Nintendulator at times for debugging, especially if it's a kind of issue that FCEUX does poorly with. A lot of FCEUX's debug features can be augmented very well with lua scripts, too.)

I even just use batch files to build. I've considered makefiles a few times, but I've never had a project with any significant build times anyway, and batch files are convenient and comfortable for me.

Shiru's Screen Tool is really nice for just testing out nametable art ideas. For my bigger project I just wrote my own editor anyway, but I would normally write my own tools for any big game project. His Famitone library (and other peoples' derived forks) is probably really nice for people that don't want to (or aren't able to) write their own sound engine... actually that's something that's definitely improved since 2007: lots more libraries and examples.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221433)
rainwarrior wrote:
I would say that Python has become a very important supplementary tool for me. It's very convenient for processing scripts, e.g. feeding debug symbols to FCEUX, building music data...

Absolutely. I can't recommend this highly enough. Python (or any similar quick scripting language: Perl, PHP, Ruby, etc) will make your life so much easier. Being able to work with your assets (level data, graphics, enemy data, etc) in an easy-to-read/write format, then automatically convert them at build time, is incredibly important for a good development workflow.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221434)
In 2007 I would have written a C++ program for those cases instead of a Python one, but now that I'm familiar with Python it's way better for quick internal stuff that doesn't have to be robust; especially for the huge amount of modern-purpose libraries it has convenient access to, and lots of built in functionality for things like string parsing, etc.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221437)
I use Sublime Text 3. Couldn't live without it! It has great extensions to work with C and markdown, and there's 6502 syntax highlighting too :-)
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221465)
in 2007 all my data was saved in XML and today now JSON is the norm. I would have never touched python on windows but now this less an issue and the linux subsystem does help for those tools.

I did start to write my editor but never finished. Maybe in another 10 years I will have some progess on it, who knows? :lol:

@FrankenGraphics

I included a screenshot of my current color theme that I use with my new C project. It mixes files from my older and new project just to give an example out the color syntax looks like. I use a font that reminds me of my dos days.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221468)
lots of people wrote:
vim
lidnariq wrote:
emacs
*dives for cover*

I'm using Mousepad. The only feature I can't live without is unlimited undo/redo.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221470)
When I wanted to balance the shop prices in Nova the Squirrel and wanted to know how many coins were in an average level, getting a printout of the information I needed ended up only being like 10 short lines of Python. That's what really sold me on using Python for NESdev purposes.

I'd say scripting languages like that are also very useful for lookup table generation, with how important that is for many NES things.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221472)
Rahsennor wrote:
*dives for cover*

I'm using Mousepad. The only feature I can't live without is unlimited undo/redo.


Let's the holy war begins! :lol:

Mousepad is quite useful actually. I found it while using xfce and use it every day for many small tasks. The fact that it has tabs is a plus.

@NovaSquirrel

I didn't use it yet for nesdev, mostly for work but the creation of quick data is useful, like you mentioned. Before I would have dome some quick hack in c# in a winForm and would have wasted so much time over a trivial task.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221478)
Python is kind of handy, its good for small quick stuff and for testing dumped RAM to make sure things are doing what they should be doing. However for anything I tend to depend on long term, c# I find is a better alternative. It is easier to maintain and the debugger is better with edit'n'continue which makes it a better pay off for more complex things over time. But for a simple split these words into lo,hi tables Python all the way.
Its not really a new thing, BASIC 2.0 on a C64 was used for the same purpose. Python is just the new BASIC, in 2007 I would have just used VBS, I still have some 'tools' written in VBS that I use...
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221489)
@Oziphantom

The debugger for visual studio is quite good and I liked it for vs2008 but now 2017 community is so heavy on my dinosaur that I don't know how much impact it would have for C# (when starting to debug/run C++ projects it is quite slow). I'm used to .net 2 so I guess it must have changed so much that I wouldn't recognize the language any more :lol:
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221503)
Banshaku wrote:
It seems vim is very popular. I guess I should earn to use it a little bit more. I'm so used to the mouse these days that the vim paradigm, although interesting, is hard to get used unless you know enough commands.


:set mouse=a

Tada, you can use the mouse. You'll get more speed from knowing vim's motions, but using the mouse is a nice crutch.
Re: How much have changed regarding editor/ide?
by on (#221527)
I just tested it, it put it in visual mode. It could come in handy in some situation but by mouse control I meant more an editor with contextual menu. It just became an habit since the rise of ide under windows.

I remember the time when we didn't have those thing, no intellisense or context menu under dos. That was the time when I used turbo pascal, turbo c or qb45. It was great for the time. Now we are too spoiled with all those gadgets they give with their ide :lol: I need to learn vim someday, would love to. Thanks for the tip!